johnny9fingers | (no subject)

A few months ago I was in a debate/discussion with softside & I stated, unequivocally, that London, and by extension, England, was the least racist place I had ever encountered.
I feel I must retract that statement, and probably apologise to softside for misleading him in some specific ways.
I don't follow much telly, not often having the inclination to put down my reading to watch something vacuous - however the furore over 'Big Brother' has finally penetrated my hermitage and I felt I needed to do some research.

The Goody family, who are celebreties by virtue of Jade Goody's spectacular ignorance whilst appearing in a previous 'Big Brother' are as one would expect: the living definition of lumpen proletarians made good through accident and luck. Their attitudes are unreconstructed. They seem nasty, bullying, offensive, and so small minded it is no wonder that the tabloid papers have taken them to their heart - when two mentalities mirror each other so perfectly, it is impossible to imagine that the marriage between the Red-tops and the Goody family would not have been consecrated by yet further excesses of ignorance and stupidity.

Shilpa Shetty is a 'Bollywood' superstar. She is beautiful, educated, and ever-so-slightly superior: only one of which is acceptable in this democratic age.
It is acceptable to be beautiful, because that's an accident of birth, or down to surgery.
It is unacceptable to be clever or learned, because that shows you've read books, and wasted time you could otherwise have spent drinking yourself to the point of liver failure, or fighting, or having sex with your neighbour. Also reading makes you feel you're superior to people who may well be more beautiful than you, which is unacceptable in the modern world - because as we all know, the only things that count in this world are beauty, celebrity, and wealth, and if you have those you're allowed to be arrogant.
However, Shilpa is also more beautiful than the Goody's of this world.
I must admit to ignorance about both Bollywood superstars and minor Big Brother celebrities and their families.
But if the tabloids champion the Goody's ever again, I rather think they will be complicit in their bullying. Oh wait, it's the tabloids, they're the biggest bullies imaginable.

(What's even worse for me in particular is that Teddy Sheringham's other half (Danielle) has shown herself to be of a similar ilk to the Goodys. Sheringham being a Tottenham legend, despite having moved to other clubs over the years, and Spurs being my club.)

Amongst the middle and upper classes, and the educated working classes I've encountered almost (note) no racism. Big Brother is showing me life outside my sheltered enclave. If people in England devolve into these sort of characters I rather think the time has come for me to die.

Germaine Greer (whom I admire tremendously) called this country racist. I cannot now but agree with her: however, I'm trying to think of a less racist English speaking country, as a move may be preferable to death.
Australia - no.
The US - possibly.
Ireland - definitely not.
New Zealand looks to be possible, but I'll have to do more research.
Actually, a move probably isn't preferable to death.
My idea of England is worth dying for.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Believe me, I was brought in Wolerhampton. Enoch Powell was my MP (I never voted for him, but I did meet him). I was a longhaired poof and paki-lover. Add to that my neighbours, and a good number of my friends were of jamaican descent... I loved it. Thought I was lucky to be exposed to such cultural richesse. And now I can roll a very neat 5-skin cone, and I make excellent curries, bhajis, Dhal. The british are a race of boorish bullies and I'm glad to be 'breton by adoption'.

Incidentally, Sir Alfred Ayer ('the television philosopher') was an inveterate fan of Tottenham Hotspur. I'm not interested in football - I support Liverpool. (Joke.)

Have you really got (only) 9 fingers ?

I have ten fingers. It was an agent's idea.
The name Johnny Ninefingers came from a semi-autobiographical novel I wrote some six or seven years ago.
My given patronym is Barnes, and I am technically one sixteenth Indian and one eighth Portuguese (and half Irish).
The Barnes's were a Derbyshire family, some of whom became Liverpool shippers in the 17th Cent. (The Lords Gorell are now the senior branch of the Family, but we don't talk to them.)
Liverpool shippers, as we know, were involved in the slave trade.
As well as trading in people, which is vile, they also traded with India - there have been Barnes's in India since the late C17th. For more than six generations we skipped between continents. My Grandfather, who died in 1926 when my father was three, was the last of these 'Boxwallahs'.
Guilt money paid for gentlemen's educations for us 'half-caste' types.
I have found the part of England with which I am familiar to be the least racist place I've been in. But that could be self-selecting, and down to a particular kind of education. Outside of that, as I pass for white, I am aware of how some white people think and talk amongst themselves, from the Clubs of St James' to the middle classes of Surrey. Alas, the Jade Goody's of this world are outside my ken, but in mine own milieu I know that most folk don't appear to be racist in any significant way - which is to say that the Welsh, Scots, Irish, French, Yanks, Aussies, Africans, Asians, and folk like me all get treated pretty much the same: piss gets taken for personal characteristics, rather than ethnic differences, though when the Rugger's on things can get a bit heated. (The Cricket can do as much, too.)
I don't know - sometimes I despair of people's idiocy.

I think you had a sophisticated and cosmopolitan education - it exposed you to other folk from whom you derived benefits.
I can't roll 5-skin cones after 28 years in the business.
A J Ayer not only was a Spurs fan, he was a Wittgenstein fan as well.
One of my best friends (Cressy) is a Liverpool supporter - she'd commit violence of a verbal kind on the perpetrator of that joke. When you guys meet (as I hope you will) I'll hold her back. (She's only short, but fierce is fierce.) Her old man, Fra, was my bridge partner before parenting took over a lot of his spare time (and looking after my Old Man did similar to me). He's an Arsenal fan. The FA cup match played recently must have made waves.
But a Spurs and Arsenal fan as a bridge partnership...oooh (thank god we're both civilised.)

I went to a brutal and inept school. For me, education is definitely what took place during the school holidays. I had to make a conscious decision at the age of 19 to undo the damage done by my school career, and get myself into a cognitive state where I could undergo 3 years of undergraduate studies (philo/anthropo/RS - only certifiedly useless subjects for me...). On the other hand, reading, playing music, drugs and sex... I was an avid experimenter/explorer, and sought to get as many neurons acquainted with each other as physically possible. I'm half-geordie and 100% sassenach (bordersman). I like th sound of your b/ground. I have lots of respect for the sub-continentals. Why wouldn't you consider living in Ireland ? I reckon I'd like it - the 'bog irish' notwithstanding. I like it here in Brittany. The Bretons never stop reminding me that they're not french. It's in a similar spirit that I reclaim my scottish ancestry. I was born in Liverpool because I though I ought to be with my mother for the birth... I can't say I like the dour presbyterian mind-set of my sheep-sha... I mean sheep-rearing forbears much, when I look closely at it. Have you been to Dumfries ? The 'viking' side of the family (Berwick/Alnwick) at least has the distinction of having been criminal and riotous. On the western side, we supported Bruce at Bannockburn and were incorporated into the Bruce 'clan' (given the right to wear the royal tartan).

I had a mixed education, both state and private, but was fortunate that all the schools I attended were full of intellectually able folk. As for the 'education' itself, well...compulsory Latin now exists only in a handful of schools, which all cost lots and lots of money. And also, I didn't pay as much attention as I should have to any part of the conventional learning experience.
The Irish thing comes from experience. Despite the fact that by blood I'm more Irish than English, the racism I ever experienced in England came from second generation Irish. The English accepted me without a qualm: the Irish were a bit less welcoming, both here and in Eire. My brother, who wouldn't quite pass for English (more Mediterranean) got a lot more stick than I did when we went over to visit the rellies.
(I must however make plain: our rellies always defended us against Irish insularity and parochialism - with the possible exception of Grandpa, who was from a different generation, and somewhat confused by us, but that could have been because we were obviously culturally English, and Mum's family were Republicans of a particular kind.)
I've investigated lots about the English/Indian connections, but the best book I know on the subject is 'The White Mughals' by William Dalrymple, published sometime in the 90's.
There is a classic footnote about the Gardners/Uttoxeter inheritance therein, which makes for salutary reading.
(A cause celebre which no doubt helped prompt the 1953 edition of Burke's Peerage to plea for the reappraisal and return of England's sundered Peers - didn't help us much, as we don't appear to be in direct line for our family title, but there you go.)

I doubt there's anywhere that's immune from racism. It's probably in that mash of programming up in our head somewhere to be inherently distrustful, suspicious and perhaps even a bit hostile to those outside our 'tribe'. The wonderful thing about civilization is that it expands the tribe, to include ever more people. But we can't escape the programming.

I think in many ways you are right, but I'm not certain if it's just about 'tribe'. I think it's also about familiarity, which is only slightly different to tribe. A sophisticated cosmopolitan education of good quality changes the opinions of the generation that receives it, and has a knock on effect amongst the parents of the pupils receiving it.
If the cleverest kid in your class is a swotty Asian dude, or a tremendously well-read African, you don't neccessarily think of them as being inferior, or different, apart from the fact that they're doing better than you. You might however, not think of them as belonging to your 'tribe'. I can understand that position, and it's one that I think of as applying to a lot of America.
I always considered England to be different.
Even as an immigrant, if you spoke well, and thought well, and expressed yourself well, it was an advantage, but not quite enough to belong (which is unlike the US). True acceptance traditionally came in the second generation, wherein it didn't matter where your folk came from, just how well you 'played the game'.
I appear have English ancestors that stretch back to the Conquest (but one can never be sure without DNA testing), so it was always going to be different for me, and I suppose that has also coloured my view, and I suppose also, the views of those who'd otherwise have targetted me for their spite.
I've probably had a sheltered upbringing, despite my radical history, and my opinions of England may well have been filtered through rose-tinted spectacles.
However, I still think that the bit of England I know and understand really is God's own country, filled with some sort of lucky chosen folk, very few of whom, to my mind, appear racist. As to whether such is representative of England as a whole is now moot.

(no subject)

England IS a racist country

Re: England IS a racist country

Re: England IS a racist country

Re: My education

Re: My education

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