johnny9fingers | (no subject)

(no subject)

I know I complain about the state education system in England.

Here's why:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080204/tod-britain-people-history-offbeat-6058bda_1.html

How fucking stupid. How dumb. How ignorant, cretinous, and imbecilic.

Time to start putting these folk into institutions for the deficient, and not allowing them out until they've passed the requisite exams deeming them educated to the basic standards required by a civilised society.

Either that or geld and cull them.

And as for the politicians that have allowed this state of affairs to happen....good job your fate isn't in my hands, m'dears: because it really would be a ride on the tumbrils to Madame la Guillotine.

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Can I hold the basket?

How is your knitting, citoyenne Tricoteur?

Well, I'm decent at crocheting...

Ya'll are having serious issues over there in the UK, man.

And this weekend, it started with losing to Wales in the Six Nations.
Corrected my post as well.
Too splenetic to type properly.
Aaaarrrgh!
[sounds of aneurism exploding in background]

The survey was done by UKTV Gold - self-selecting sample of the stupid, I think. Check your sources...

Did you see the story about the extension of the pilot scheme that the government have been running to send sixth formers to Auschwitz? It was in, I think, the Telegraph but I'm too lazy to look it up. The idea is that two people in each year get to go (funded centrally) and meet survivors, talk to people, tour the site and so on. It's been so successful (several of the students who went ended up campaigning against the BNP in their local elections, for example, and most of them have done talks to their classes and more public things locally) that they're extending it across England,and it will be available to all state schools.

On a more personal note: H is at a state school, and is nearly nine, and yesterday a.) corrected my pronunciation of "blanc" (never did get the hang of French - I blame the terrible French teachers in my *private* school) and b.) explained succinctly and correctly about the differences between the masculine and feminine version, with examples.

It's not all bad - and that's just in two days.

In addition - how do you make people learn? How far are you going to extend the nanny state - do you not allow people to be set free until they have memorised the facts that you deem necessary? What is necessary? What if they don't care - how do you make them? The whole notion of locking people up until they are intellectually worthy according to some arbitrary set of values has a bit too much of a taste of fascism for my liking.

I fail to see why politicians should hang because they didn't (couldn't, actually) force someone to learn what was, in fact, available to be learnt. It's not fair to blame one set of people for the choices of another set.

I am sure that I do not want to spend any more time than is necessary with such people as think (for want of a better word) like that - but I'm also sure they do not want to spend time with me. Everyone is different, and it's a terrible shame that most of them are dreadful, but do you really think that politicians can force people to learn anything? Who gets to decide what they are forced to learn?

Finally, why geld and cull? Is that not a bit redundant?

Sorry my lovely - that was me, M, in case you hadn't worked it out already.

I guessed it to be you, m'dear.
More of a Stalinist than fascist, but pretty damn totalitarian nevertheless.
Aut disce, aut discede, manet sors tertia caedi. Learn, leave, or be beaten. Thrash learnin' into the little blighters.
Perhaps I do protest too much, but still, given the average young male persons disinclination to learn (I remember being young too, in fact I had to do a little remedial work in my twenties for just that reason of laxity, as I'm sure you are aware) I'd chain 'em to their desks, excepting when out on forced marches.
I'm perfectly prepared to accept that the female of the species is somewhat more responsible: not being in quite the same hormonal induced frenzy - testosterone being what it is. But I think we must treat both sexes equally. Just for the protection of adults. Besides which, it's slightly more difficult to smuggle guns into prisons. So that would be another win.
I could go on like this for ages. But after a time it ceases to be amusing, and I'm perfectly accepting of the fact that I could well convince myself that it is the only road to take.
In which case I might just accept the fascist sobriquet.
Bah.
You are right about the redundancy in gelding and culling: put it down to an excess of spleen, m'dear.
But damn the willfully ignorant and stupid: or if not damn them, just make it so they can't interfere with my life in any way.

Good for Holls too.

Unfortunately for your thesis, you can't even beat people into learning. If they refuse (and girls are just as capable of this as boys - Hazel will give you myriad examples) there's no way on earth to make them interested. What do you do then?

H is not an exception - she may not be one of the hordes of thousands, but she's definitely not an outstanding example of juvenile genius. She's much less scary bright than I was, for example - and look where being scary bright got me. Just because you know stuff doesn't mean you know everything (I married the ex-git, for example). Nick is the best example of someone I know who got where he is through sheer brains, but there aren't that many of them.

Blame the Quaker bit if you like (and I had tendencies before being sent to them for school, I'm sure. so it's not all their fault) but I don't see why people who have no interest in that sort of thing should be forced to conform to some arbitrary notion of what constitutes educated. What you actually want is for them to be able to run a life, and I don't recall the last time I heard of someone dying or irretrievably fucking up their children or whatever because they were unaware that Charles Dickens was a real chap.

You still haven't answered how it's the fault of the politicians that there are people who will not learn, or have no interest in learning.

Have to go to work, or I could carry on for ages. I do, however, agree with you that life would be much more pleasant if everyone knew at least a bit about everything - but I don't regard it as my business (or that of politicians) if they choose not to. Avoid them where possible, patronise in one's head if you can't. Try it - quite satisfying. I find running Idiot Wind on constant loop in the brain helps.

Unfortunately for your thesis, you can't even beat people into learning. If they refuse (and girls are just as capable of this as boys - Hazel will give you myriad examples) there's no way on earth to make them interested. What do you do then?

Prepare their prison cell?
Because if we don't get our young people to learn just what are they going to do? Manual work in non-existant industry? Poorly paid agricultural labouring?
Trying to think of other alternatives to criminality as it appears many of the young women Hazel teaches are already on that particular slope, but I end up with work that requires no qualifications or learning. A new underclass ready for service or criminality. After all, the upper classes need their whores and parlour maids and footmen: things you can't really turn the educated into.

And you can beat children into learning: it's just not nice. They did so for six hundred years at Winchester, and four hundred years at St Paul's.

None of Hazel's young ladies have ever known corporal punishment. And few have known any other sanction that makes them pause: asbos are a badge of honour. Being in care means they can absent themselves whenever they feel like it. The social workers can advise and recommend, but even in the case when that girl was 'happy-slapped' into hospital, no-one went to prison or borstal. I doubt the cat would be quite as easy to ignore.
If someone had 'happy slapped' me into hospital, I would be in prison by now, having taken my revenge.

Actually, I don't like the idea of ruling through fear: which is one reason I object to the young louts of poor education roaming the streets and making folk of my parents' generation too scared to go out. But the solution doesn't appear to be merely one of throwing resources at young folk. Banning telly would probably have a greater effect.

As with all these things, the pendulum will swing. Society will grow tired of indulging these young folk: what will happen then, who knows.

And actually, a lot of it is about funding. We don't pay enough tax to fund an education system as it should be funded. But that could just be my opinion.

Congratulations, your country has been Americanized. How do you feel?

Pretty damn angry. As you might have noticed.

Indeed I did. Drinking helps me cope, and when that doesn't work a bit of smoke. That, and the not giving a shit what other people think thing. Although, I believe that was an after-effect from being surrounded by ignorant idiots my whole life. I would highly suggest that one if you can accomplish it, mixed with a sense of humor, everything seems a mite less irritating.

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Some of them may have had different names in those days. Don't stress me, I know the answer....Berlin?

...and these are the people who let the government send my buddies to die and have their bodies and minds shattered.

bread and circuses.

Well, as long as folk all want to be famous for fifteen minutes on 'American Idol' they have their circus.
The Senatorial class in the US has yet to work out the 'bread' side of the equation. But economics will force the issue, else (as we know from history) there will be revolt.
In Europe, we worked out the need for a corn dole early thanks to the Senate and People of Rome. Elsewhere

winterlion mentions those who do not learn from history. This may be addressed to a small extent with a Democratic President....but even then, by now we should be well beyond these rather basic models for ordering society.

I fear sense won't come in my lifetime. Catastrophe, obviously, but sense....nah.

And this administration has shafted the returning Services personnel. But like a kicked dog, they loyally return to the Republican hand again, because it's what they know.

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In which I call you a fascist, but I'll keep talking to you anyway

Re: In which I call you a fascist, but I'll keep talking to you anyway

Re: In which I call you a fascist, but I'll keep talking to you anyway

Re: In which I call you a fascist, but I'll keep talking to you anyway

Re: In which I call you a fascist, but I'll keep talking to you anyway

Re: In which I call you a fascist, but I'll keep talking to you anyway

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