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johnny9fingersI don't have quite the same presence on the interwebs that I once had; nevertheless I'm active on one or two pages - musician's geek pages talking about kit and stuff. Most of them are strictly apolitical and enforce that apolitical stance pretty rigorously; understandably given that most musos come from all spectra of political hue.
However there are some things which overlap unavoidably and the latest of there are:
Covid (responses, gigging, poverty, death, etc)
The present UK/EU situation regarding freedom of movement for musicians; or the new rules and the lack of ability of UK musicians to play in Europe without lots of red tape and prohibitive extra costs.
Anyway, the former problem tripped me up because there are some folk who on the boards who were, let's say, skeptical about the conventional responses to Covid, and to masks, and to the curtailment of their freedoms. It's not that unusual a position among musicians; Van Morrison and Eric Clapton spring to mind.
So... it ends up that on one of these pages I've been moderated by the chaps in charge (in the nicest possible way) because I sort of... went on a rant. It was a moderate and considered rant, but rant nevertheless.
But what I'd like to know - and maybe this is relevant to the process of healing the divides that exist between factions in certain polities - is how does one go about trying to combat both overt and covert politicisation by other folk, or even oneself? I mean I find it personally objectionable if someone states up is down as a serious position; to me that is deluded. (Satire is another matter; but the sort of satire available to geeky musicians may be an acquired taste.) How do you suggest to someone that they're wrong in a way that gets them to examine exactly what it is they think anew?
Obviously, I've failed again; but next time I want to fail better. Suggestions please. (Also I don't want to burn the house down, so to speak - going all Malcolm Tucker on eleven isn't really my modus operandi here.)
However there are some things which overlap unavoidably and the latest of there are:
Covid (responses, gigging, poverty, death, etc)
The present UK/EU situation regarding freedom of movement for musicians; or the new rules and the lack of ability of UK musicians to play in Europe without lots of red tape and prohibitive extra costs.
Anyway, the former problem tripped me up because there are some folk who on the boards who were, let's say, skeptical about the conventional responses to Covid, and to masks, and to the curtailment of their freedoms. It's not that unusual a position among musicians; Van Morrison and Eric Clapton spring to mind.
So... it ends up that on one of these pages I've been moderated by the chaps in charge (in the nicest possible way) because I sort of... went on a rant. It was a moderate and considered rant, but rant nevertheless.
But what I'd like to know - and maybe this is relevant to the process of healing the divides that exist between factions in certain polities - is how does one go about trying to combat both overt and covert politicisation by other folk, or even oneself? I mean I find it personally objectionable if someone states up is down as a serious position; to me that is deluded. (Satire is another matter; but the sort of satire available to geeky musicians may be an acquired taste.) How do you suggest to someone that they're wrong in a way that gets them to examine exactly what it is they think anew?
Obviously, I've failed again; but next time I want to fail better. Suggestions please. (Also I don't want to burn the house down, so to speak - going all Malcolm Tucker on eleven isn't really my modus operandi here.)
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Date: 2021-01-21 04:25 pm (UTC)Interesting question.
The short answer? You can't. 😊
When has anyone's mind ever been changed by words they read on the Internet? Never! 😊
I have a fair number of acquaintances and blood relations who are Trump supporters. So long as they don't go out of their way to flash me with their Trump support, I don't feel the need to dispute anything they write. Of course, all this is on FB, which is my primary Internet forum these days, and where it is relatively easy not to see (and therefore have to respond) to sentiments that upset me.
If these people become too obnoxious i.e. they begin actively trolling me in my own spaces, I simply disappear them. 😊
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Date: 2021-01-21 11:48 pm (UTC)I hate to say it; but on that particular forum I have changed a few minds about the virtues of modelling when compared to "Tube Amps". When folk said nothing compares to an old amp (many of which I own) and that modelling is rubbish I was able to refute it by kicking their tree. And obviously so. (As in "this was recorded using my modeller; go on, get a better sound out of your miked amp" sort of thing.)
I really tried to avoid getting political in my rant but it is impossible. I'll post it.
In response to a thread that ended with this:
With no hyperbole, I can say the US response has easily been the worst worldwide. Between deaths and uncontrolled spread......bad.
I replied:
I'm afraid the position of "worst worldwide" is taken. But given the nature of the US you may well overtake the UK in really disastrous figures, even with the new Admin in place. Trump is no longer POTUS; but those folk who were/are Trump's constituency seem disinclined to listen to any narrative of general safety from the new administration. This doesn't augur well for keeping the virus in check.
The UK's remarkably competent government will be in place for another four years or so.
The Swedish response appears to be a busted flush. The missing cards in this case being the per capita death toll.
I am disinclined to tell anyone else what to do. But I do try to make a rational response to any situation I find myself in. And I also look at historical precedent. Folk in the 1919 pandemic weren't happy to wear masks, right up until they were.
The death toll will change folk's opinions. Eventually.
It has for Sweden, after all. The Swedes have recanted their previous policy. Now also, we have to remember that the Swedes are a law-abiding, quasi-socialist society with healthcare, childcare, and all sorts of social welfare programmes unimaginable to folk in the US. Even with all that, and possibly the most grown up and responsible population in the developed world (there are a few other contenders, almost all Northern European - NZ may also have recently been promoted to this elite) they failed. Anglo-Saxon nations like the UK and US which are freedom-and-fun loving and who, on principle, always teeter on the edge of what we can get away with, we'd mess it up before lunch - as we can all see with what has happened to the UK. And what is happening in the US.
Can we take Occam's razor to this, chaps? Folk are dying - not everyone; but you can't tell exactly who as yet. There are risk groups and risk factors and also some underlying genetic predispositions; but we haven't pinpointed them with any degree of exactitude.
We've worked out the cause of the disease. We understand the disease's spread. We've built a vaccine or five. We are getting things done to mitigate the pandemic and eventually control it.
The normal response to all this is not to try to take a contrary position, or even a skeptical opinion, if you are taking it for any other reason excepting refining what we know; being a devil's advocate. But folk don't appear to be using skepticism like that; it's become another damn article of faith.
I can't believe how a pandemic became politicised. To me that seems like insanity. And such politicising won't help combating the virus.
Guitarists are traditionally cool bad guys. Some of us would happily wake up in the gutter with a needle in a vein and call for Bollinger if we could; in an attempt to outKeef Keef. But it ain't us I'm as worried about as it is about the collateral damage; the civilians out there who do care about their lives more than their cool. You can't "off" your audience, after all; else, to borrow some Americanisms, no musician without a trust fund would make their rent.
I admit I was drunk at the time. BTW two days before, on the same thread dealing with the plague, I posted that the Baritone Sax from the Reggae Band I play in had died of covid.
The anger levels are through the roof at the moment. I anticipate an aneurysm. Self-medicating with alcohol is not my preference, obvs. But it will do when I have no other responsibilities. I'm a trifle random atm; thankfully I have the kids with me this weekend; and that tends to anchor me in quieter waters.
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Date: 2021-01-22 03:55 pm (UTC)Second, I am very glad you don't get drunk around your young children because if you did, I would have to surrender my throne of enlightened libertarianism and yell at you.
Are you lonely? Is that why you're funneling so much energy into these online forums?
I'm not going to comment on the substance of what you wrote. Beyond saying it's true, of course. But you must know that it's not going to change anybody's mind. Harm prevention strategies like masking and social distancing always have to be taken on faith because there's no real way to prove their efficacy, but faith erodes rapidly when leadership is bad or inconsistent.
I get the need to self-medicate. These are trying times. I drank bit over the holidays but have gone back to teetotaling 'cause it would just be too easy for me to spend these months in a drunken stupor myself.
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Date: 2021-01-22 12:05 am (UTC)Nevermind; there's always Cardenio, and the albums after Abbey Road. I'm sure I can be bought off.
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Date: 2021-01-22 04:03 pm (UTC)I have no idea what this means, but it scans beautifully. 😊
The Omega will tell you that evil is not an absolute but a relative, and what is evil to you is the fleece of the lamb for someone else.
And that pain is a signal that yr bodily or spiritual integrity is being encroached upon somehow. 😊
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Date: 2021-01-22 04:49 pm (UTC)New Beatles albums post Abbey Road - there are universes in which, but alas not this one.
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Date: 2021-01-22 04:55 pm (UTC)Ah! Well-alluded! 😊
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Date: 2021-01-21 04:34 pm (UTC)https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/634593/doesnt-hurt-to-ask-by-trey-gowdy/
Best of luck.
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Date: 2021-01-21 11:59 pm (UTC)I'm also pretty good at haranguing; and I reckon I could give Xanthippe a run for her money in fishwife-like vituperation. But I try to moderate myself; especially as I recognise I am, at the moment, all spleen and ideal - which rarely makes for temperate discourse.
I've been getting drunk and making mistakes. Mistakes are a cardinal sin where I come from. So I'm rather full of self-loathing too; ergo not good company. The skies do appear to have cleared a bit since yesterday though; and the sense of oppression has lessened..
May your day be as good as it can be in the circs. Damn plague.
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Date: 2021-01-22 03:57 pm (UTC)You have a very original and inventive mind. 😊
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Date: 2021-01-22 04:53 pm (UTC)Ah, another English irregular verb.
I am very interesting,
You have a very original and inventive mind
He is totally doolally with a fried egg on top...
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Date: 2021-01-23 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-01-23 08:03 pm (UTC)Bernard Woolley : That's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it. I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist.