(no subject)

[johnny9fingers]

This was sent to me by an Australian chum, bless her.

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar10272006.html

Now if I were an American, I'd be pretty much up in arms about that: I'd want to know how true this testimony is, and if true, who sanctioned this sort of thing and....what damage does this sort of policy do to long-term US interests.

The chap that got us (the UK) involved in all of this has stepped down. Apart from the odd interview with the law, and perhaps a small time spent at Her Majesty's Pleasure, he will now be relatively blameless for the policy decisions still to come. Because there will be one last throw of the dice: it is, after all what desperate men do. GWB, thankfully, isn't bothering his pointy-little-head about it all, because, as we all know, he leaves that sort of stuff to Uncle Dick.

But Uncle Dick is running scared now. Will he resign, and pin all the blame on poor little George?

Comments

[masquedbunny.livejournal.com]

Doubtful that Dick would resign (the ones you hate last forever); but if he did, it would be quite likely that George would be impeached shortly thereafter (nobody wants to impeach him right now, because we'd be left with Dick in the hot seat). And with Cheney gone, next in the line of succession is Speaker Pelosi (bet it would twist Hilary's pants to have another woman reach the presidential office before she does, hah).

[tripinthehead33.livejournal.com]

The thing that truly bothers me with this kind of situation, is the assumption that it is a new thing. It has been going on for some time. However, due to the lack of faith in the government, people aren't just ignoring the "rumors" of the government doing such things. They aren't praising the country as a whole any longer, the majority are now quite unhappy with the government and listening. Throughout the history of this country, people that threaten the power of those with power have disappeared, just like this man.

Thought you'd appreciate it

[(Anonymous)]

What I want to know is, how on earth anyone thought that Blair would be a good Middle East peace envoy? Do we really think that anyone with whom we need to be having serious conversations is going to regard him as neutral at the very least?

M

P.S. I'm blessed! Is that like some sort of papal goodwill gesture?

Re: Thought you'd appreciate it

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Em, when are you going to get a LiveJournal account?
It takes twenty minutes to set up. Even Stephoin(dammit, can't find the proper Gaelic spelling) has one (not that he exercises it very much).
See you Saturday.
Hope N and young H are well.

Re: Thought you'd appreciate it

[(Anonymous)]

I should get a LiveJournal account with all my spare time, you mean? What would I do with it once I had it, apart from harrass you with a username rather than without? I bet skippy's taken anyway.


You will see me Saturday if I can get a babysitter. Charlotte is very rudely going out to dinner, and I am down to the last possible hope - will find out tonight. Is the scary Scottish one really going to be there (boots, quaking in)?

All well, pox is basically gone and itching has stopped. N is well too.

M

Re: Thought you'd appreciate it

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

I think the scary Scottish one will be there, complete with new boyf. Hazel 'n' Neil and Stephen in the same room together too....oh blimey, it could all get hellish amusing. You have to be there really. It'll either be civilised, or it won't. I'm going to bring a couple of guitars to hide behind, anyway. I may provide a running soundtrack in the manner of piano accompanyists to silent movies....you will be able to work out the meaning from the symbolism and quotes.

As for an LJ account, what else are you going to when you can't get a babysitter?

Re: Thought you'd appreciate it

[(Anonymous)]

Stephen is going? Blimey. I'd assumed that the fifty miles from home and away from the aged parent would be enough to put him off. So has Hazel, although she apparently has Neil watching her in case she says something nasty if he is there.

Hiding sounds good. I sort of want to be there in order to prevent N from letting himself be kicked if that's the way the evening goes - he's got a little too much of "it's the least she deserves, laying in to me a bit" for my liking. And if you told him I said anything at all about that I wil have to kill you.

I want to be there anyway, of course. If it all kicks off, it could be a fantastic story - in about twenty years time. What is slightly worrying is that I might get a good metaphorical kicking as well.

Unfortunately, it's not really something I can drag the sprog to - she will either be civilised or she won't, as well, and I would have to spend too much of the evening fielding her for either of us to have a good time.

LJ account = thing to do an Saturday when all my friends are dancing awkwardly around each other and avoiding the ones they don't speak to, only to start verbally laying into each other (in a very English way, of course - except for the scary Scottish one)? Not much of a substitute.

M

P.S. Email me at work, I've hijacked your comments. I think you have the address.

Re: Thought you'd appreciate it

[(Anonymous)]

So if you start playing Wagner we all know to evacuate the building as E is about to go all Valkyrie on us?

M

[winterlion.livejournal.com]

The Maher Arar case caught a lot of people.

RCMP screwed up - they provided wrong evidence to the US. How far up the chain that went is ... *sigh* still unsure. However if this chain goes to completion there's a chance that Canada will no longer extradite to the US as we are not allowed to extradite to countries that do torture. I have no idea if that will happen though.

US feds.... bloody torturers.

Jordan - shouldn't be involved in this. This is very bad.

Syria - no surprise unfortunately. They've been like that "forever" (recordable history in that region).


PS: all true, all confirmed by RCMP during investigation.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Well, even Homer nods.
The RCMP are still one of those organisations with an aura of infalliblity, or at least the 'try with all possible human endeavour' version of the thing.
Under Blair, we did something very silly about extraditing to the US. Blair signed a one-way Treaty, without ratification of parliament or anything, that enables the US to extradite anyone on basically any pretext. This treaty is not reciprocal.
There used to be places in the Tower for folk like Blair.
They led to the block.

[vlion.livejournal.com]

I had a nice comment that was well-written.

In short, I dug up the canadian commission's report, in particular the fact-finding report; and the sources used to say that Arar was detailed is some of the weakest data I've ever heard. It would be absolutely unaccepted in any scientific paper. 4 self-reports, and 1 independent report do not a story tell.

I should not have to remind people of the concept of a mole. There's a lot of America and Bush hatred in the world right now, and I could definitely see a group of people setting up years ago to create scandals now.

The other question is- and I am not qualified to answer at this point in time and I suspect it would be both a legal and a philosophical view- does a country's laws, e.g., habeus corpus, extend to people not of that country?

[vlion.livejournal.com]

"tortured", not detailed. Too many things flowing around in my head at the moment.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

This is the matter I mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003

As for the rest: it's not about America hatred. I don't hate America, far from it: I have even considered living there. (Still am in a slightly nebulous way.)
But you know, the piratical thing fights with the inp of the perverse, and as Pirates found, fairness (at least amongst ourselves) is the only way of dealing with things.
Being just is a step towards fairness. Examining our own behaviour is necessary in the process of being just, especially if one of our objectives is the spreading of Justice, which so often goes hand-in-hand with Democracy. Democracy without Justice is after all merely the dictatorship of the majority; and has no greater moral authority than any other dictatorship (although in practice such dictatorships tend to convince themselves otherwise).
Practically speaking, whether it's American bashing or just incredulousness at what we've all allowed to go on for so long, we do have to continue asking for explanation and whatever truth can be uncovered: such would go a long way towards restoring the reputations of both of our nations, tied as we are inextricably in this action. And the reputation of my country is important to me, as is the reputation of our closest ally: the country that came to our aid at a time when all seemed lost.
We're better than we're portrayed, and so are you. It comes down to folk to prove it, however.